That's what I was thinking of doing. Maybe add the output also from the main drive motor to charge the battery that is running the motor and also turning the generator that charges the same battery. Diodes might be needed if using outputs from both to charge the same battery but between the two it sounds like a self runner waiting to happen

__________________
There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

Hello Darkoni,

In that particular Motor (the R/Shack) it is in Diagonal), but there are many others that Brush arrangement are like this I have here...


But also for "Sake of Simplicity" I set it that way, for Diagram easy understanding, as I write clearly where the Inputs are on all examples...

I did it also like this set up in my Video on the Asymmetry to Enlightenment...so I do not have to Cross Flows and create confusion...there is enough already...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi woopi. I think the diagognal outside connection is throwing you off. Internally it's connected on the left side (upper and lower) of your diagram. Someone correct me if I'm wrong tho

Hi wonza

in my real motor ( the one that spin happily ) , there is absolutely no physical connection between the plus and minus of the battery .

Now my question is and remain can you explain to me how this ELECTRICAL connection can occure ???

thank's

laurent


NONO, your are right there is a physical connection and i was mistaken by looking at the motor from outside sorry and thank's for correction

Thanks for the link

So why cant we wind a counter winding over the armature winding to catch the bemf and channel it back into the system to increase the power instead of opposing it, like in a transformer.

@ UFO
Thank You outstanding work, this is going to open a whole new area of research, for me at least.

dave

__________________
Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question

Thanks woopy for the winding instruction Video ! That helps a lot.

__________________
There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

Hello to All,


Here is the same configuration as "Face to Face" shown in previous Diagram, but Fused together as a complete assembly, by means of a Common Shaft between them...and a single casing...

Here We all could create a Dedicated Ideal Machine, designed to Perform at maximum efficiency for each of the Specific Duty assigned...Motor or Generator...or Both...so they could Alternate Duties...

Now, it should be "obvious to those skilled in the Art"...that a Common Stator could also be used...between the two Machines...

A common Stator that not necessarily requires to be a Permanent Magnet...Nor a "Symmetrical Separated Stator Coils Fields" either ...but ...Well...I will leave that "Part" as my "Final Stockade" to KILL the WITCH...Later on...so let's enjoy playing with her...since She has absolutely "No Where to Go"...I took her Broom off...she can not fly...like before...and hide...

So she is Upset, look at her...>>>




[IMG][/IMG]




Regards to All




Ufopolitics

Hello John,

I have not seen an eight pole before,...that is also a very strange deal...

Ok, I sketched in pencil and paper...You could do the Pyramid type [/\] like the 5 poles...but instead of 10 Coils or 5 Pairs like the Radio Shack Motor, you could do an Eight Pairs, or 16 Coils total, grabbing Three Poles per Coil, like the Armature is showing me on your picture...

I have not rotate it on CAD yet...am drawing it...it needs to be check-rotated at critical angles of Input versus Output Brushes...Now I need to know positioning of brushes plane versus Stators disposition ...are planes parallel or perpendicular?


Regards John...this would do a Heck of a Motor...I will design it just for you...is my pleasure


Ufopolitics

Woopy
You know as well as all of us that we need both ends connected at one time per pin. I think that if you check continuity and turn the shaft you will see that each side of #1 coil set is connected at the same time. That is why we reversed the end caps you silly boy. I would check it myself but my motor started to throw sparks as wires came loose and started to tear so I turned it off. Well it was running swell to that point and I guess I will solder the wires in next time.
Dana

Long time ago I picked up some $200 Milwaukee 12 volt drills for $12 each at a garage sale. I've since upgraded to some newer stuff and so took one of these apart to find it's a nice hefty 5 pole motor. Hopefully the brushes are still good. As I recall the only bad thing about these was the Nicads were going bad. Looks like I've got a couple sacrificial witches

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

UFO you gave us the asymmetrical motor now can we run it with a asymmetrical power supply.

__________________
Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question

Hi UFOPolitics,

First off, please continue to use all the words and descriptions you have been working with as they have served you very well. They seem to be outside the words that have had "spells" cast on them for the last 130 years. Some are more susceptible than others to these spells.

May I suggest you get 2 digital 22 KG (50 lB) scale to do the tests with
They are available at the Bass Pro Shop in Dania Beach, Florida for $27.00 each.
Berkley® Digital Fish Scale | Bass Pro Shops

After watching your Bosch motor video, my sense is when you apply the information/formulas Peter Lindemann has so expertly laid out to your Bosch motor, it will yield some impressive results most have been striving to achieve on all these forums.

I know you have a lot on your plate, in order of importance's, in my opinion, I believe you would be best served to carry out the tests as soon as you can. They will offer you a solid rock to stand on and a common language all can understand.

Ding Dong To The Witch Being Dead,

IndianaBoys

Got my little motor up and running so will start testing first thing tomorrow. Can't wait to see the results.

Dave

__________________
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened' General D.Eisenhower
The world we have created is a product of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking. Albert Einstein
I aim to misbehave. - Malcolm Reynolds

Hello Dave,

I have not try that...why don't you do it and let's see what happens...
maybe we get a perfect match!

Regards


Ufopolitics

Hello IndianaBoys,


Thanks, yes I know I will eventually have to do that (Dyno)...I am trying to get all things I need first...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hello UFO,

I have been quiet, but not gone. I have been busily building this new coil which I finished today. Actually, I had to rebuild it today also as it had a short due to the inferior materials that I thought would insolate, but failed. But I learned how to build it foolproof now.

The coil has a layer of CF wound on the spool first, then a sheet of parchment paper, then layer of copper magnet wire, then a sheet of parchment paper...CF, parchment paper, copper, parchment paper...etc. Each layer of CF is a separate 6' peice, but the copper magnet wire (4 strands of 19AWG) is one continuous set (500', 1.2ohms). There are 5 CF"wires".

I connected all the CF "wires" together on each end. There is a lot of testing and comparing ahead for me. I will keep you posted.

I also wanted to say "Thank you." for the motor and say seem to be complaining, that if you can't invent this, then don't give those that have a hard time. This is a free gift from UFO to everyone and I am grateful.

Thank you, UFO,

Your friend, Bob

UFO Guru..
Reference to post 119 you state ..
" Now, for sake of simplicity and not to fill it up with 20 Pairs of Coils...I have set it with just the Four Pairs that are interacting at the brush contacts..."
Do you mean you simplified the drawing to assist clarity...? Did you actually use 20 pairs of coils on the motor or wire it as per the simplified drawing?

Boy, I would love a PDF summary of the pertinent and corrected content of this and your other threads.. moving so quickly now
Cheers and thanks UFO.

Hmmm, By the time I made the mods on the lithe motor, there was not enough shaft sticking out to connect anything to. So can't connect to another motor or run any kind of load. I now have three other little motors besides the modified one, so could do all kinds of things, but unless I can attach to the shaft of the modified motor, I am a little stumped. Can't even measure the rpm's. Does anyone else have a shaft that is sticking out at all? Any suggestions guys?

Dave

__________________
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened' General D.Eisenhower
The world we have created is a product of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking. Albert Einstein
I aim to misbehave. - Malcolm Reynolds

Turion, Not sure what size motors you got but if you are very careful and a good welder you might try a light mig weld with some shaft material. But that will be tricky and will probably need some careful grinding after. If there is any shaft at all then a shaft coupler with set screws might be better. If not than I'd say you need to go back and make it longer before assembly or get a different motor. That's probably all obvious but the weld idea will probably not be and may be a last resort - a make it or break it deal. Just some thoughts off the top....

__________________
There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

That is correct Dana.
But do not forget to take the disconnected coils into account, since they are acting as condensers and are a very important part in the witchcraft

Bert

Hi Ufopolitics

If the permanent magnets on the small motor were to be replaced by 2 field coils, how would they be wired up? I can see that by putting the field coils in series with the motor brushes that would give the correct timing, but I'm not sure whether that would create excessive sparking at the commutator when the field is de-energized? Or as the brush can cover 2 commutator segments maybe this is not a problem as the field always has circuit to follow?

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Many thanks

John

Ouupps

Hi Wonza and Prochiro

You are both right and i am a "silly boy".

After some not so quite sleeping, i realise that effectively the 2 brushes holders are in reverse position. So now everything is clear. And the both end of winding are connected to both terminal of battery.

Thank's for correcting me, and sorry for disturbation.

I will retire my last video, because it is confusing

good luck at all.

Lasurent

Hi

One of the problems with the small motor is the end stator pushing out from the housing . I made a clip from some thin metal (I used some aluminum) and it works well to hold it together.

Today I have started a run with the generator connected to the output of the motor as shown by UFO.

Start batt voltage was 9.48V, which dropped to 7.84V on connection, which over 30mins has risen to 8.05V. Amp draw is a little less at 0.7 amps. Output across gen is 13.7V.

Will update later.

Regards

John

This asymetric motor (see picture), is the Brushless version of the 2 Brushed versions of Ufopolitics & Woopyjump. The power input is close to Zero (in reality we have a small leakage current). The output power depend of the diameter. In the 2 brushed versions, E field is generated beetween the 2 coils (capacitor effect) and B field by the permanents magnets.
The force is the lorentz force, the charge is Capacity x Voltage. NO CURRENT IS NEEDED
Laurent DAMOIS

Attached Thumbnails

 

Hello Ampsvolts,

Yes, that is exactly right, as I said it on that diagram...

This Motor holds a total of Twenty Pairs of Coils...it used to be almost empty with Symmetrical windings...still have the other armature winded like this...

I turned around 20-24 (One to two turns plus-minus, do not affect this Higher Sized and plenty coils Design Motors, the High RPM's will balance them all, so do not get too picky if at end some couple of turns will not fit) turns of 18 Gauge (awg) single wire. All Coils are exactly the same, I reduced the Generating ones in order to make them fit in CAD and not create confusion...

The way to wind it is just as the others, starting coil one, mark core poles involved, mark polarity (I use colors Blue-1/Red-1), so I mark the poles blue-red, then write a black marker number...I just need number one as I am practical in windings...Then Mark your Commutator starting Positive to be Red, or its shaft end...and so on...

I will put it all in pdf later on...I still have the "Final Stockade" to disclose, in order to terminate all witches spells for ever...Amen


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi All
The shaft length on the RS motor is too short as others have stated. Please remember that this motor was selected to teach theory and winding and not so much as the motor best used for extensive testing. However, you can make it good for testing. Any kind of welding of two shafts will not work as with this high speed, even if you got it vary straight, it would woble and vibrate and testing parameters would not be good. You can however get a longer shaft and replace the short one. Cleaning the epoxy arround the rotor end and pressing out the old shaft is easy. As I also reload shells, I use my presses for this project also. Pounding them out with a hammer may cause enough of a bend as to render the old shaft unusable. I then scuff up the new shaft and epoxy in place.

The other thing that you can do is get drill motors of differant length shafts as most of them use the same diameter shaft and motor housing dia. Most of them ar 3 or 5 stator. Take the longest shaft and put it into a medium or shorter rotor and case. I have found several shafts in printer and copy machines that are great.

I prefer the drill motors in that thay are more rugged and hold up to harder testing. If the RS motors did no more than teach you how to do this tech., you got your moneys worth and then some. Thanks UFO.

REAL men ( and women) like real big motors.
Dana


This can be done guys.

Good Day Damois,

That is excellent dear friend, however, I do have also a "Brush-less" version of my design...Zero Friction...Super Powered Infra Red Design or Any other desired Opto-Electronic Isolating means of Signaling through Air or Magnetic Fields sensors)...This is very simple to accomplish just because the fact that I am not reversing polarity at Motor Operation...I am just Turning On-Off...just like an Electronic Controller Oscillator Module does in a Square Signal...

If You could take some time...read my "ABSTRACT" at the very first post here...

This will open new Horizons into the world of Robotics Networks in Servo and Linear Motors Communications (Client/Server/Software/Hardware) as in many more Fields of Science as Space Age times and Air-Water-Land Vehicles.

However, the main issue I am, and I will continue to develop as of now until I finish in its entirety...relates to ENERGY..All other "State of the Art" sophisticated new upcoming Applications for the Industry of the "Developed Countries" could wait...till We All "balance out" an Equation that has been too long...unbalanced...Hope You will understand me...

Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi Dave. I may have a suggestion. I don't have a motor but you must have a spare stator right. Did you ever see if you could get the shaft out of the stator? Maybe you could replace the original with a hardened drill blank or piece of landing gear wire from the hobby shop. You have to get a way to load test right?
J

Good Morning Dana,


Thanks again for helping on this, you are completely right.

I have been able to hand file that Radio Shack ring from the other motor to be soldered to elongate outer body, to less than a Millimeter...to make the shaft a bit longer...
There is a very small coupling for this motors sold at Hobby Shop stores...it has a very tiny Allen key bolt and I have two Inner Diameter types...for this motor and also for the bigger body for drills...(The TRAXXAS I wrote before of three poles). I have inserted a metal shaft through them to get them aligned, then tight the bolts and the use my 75 Watts solder Iron...and melt them with solder...it works great...but it is a very precise-Swiss watch maker operation...

The Hand Drills (as you've said) come in three-five poles motors, and you are completely right, they are better built for testing purposes like Dyno's and other mechanical load testing and connections to Motor-Generator Assy...their commutators mica-insulation is much better as their overall construction than this Radio Shack. So, if you guys wanna go tougher...this are the ones at a smaller scale..

One thing I wanted to say, is to use the hedges dedicated for this purposes when finished winding your Baby...this motors achieve speeds beyond manufacturer spec's, and we are super packing wires on this machines...so adding the hedge-retainers between poles avoids wire to pop out and mess your great work...I pack wire first with wood-plastics knife-look alike but rounded, not sharp...then slide hedge and pull it with very fine needle nose pliers...just being careful not to scratch the enamel in wire...

Check your windings NOT TO BE GROUNDED to the Metal Cores as you wind each Pair or Single Coils, use a Diode-Continuity Meter, from Commutator Element to Steel Core-Shaft, sometimes because of hard-tight pulls, you could crack the insulation then wire touches the metal, rubs the clear coat out and this shorts out the Coil...becoming useless...
Also check each Commutator Element between Start to End of each Individual Coil, making sure they are making solid contact.Then check them between right next to it other Commutator Elements/Coils...they ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN CONTINUITY between them!!

Learn How to check your Machine after is assembled...for Coils/Pairs Open, just connect your continuity meter at Input terminals and rotate smoothly the shaft...you will be able to tell when brush meets the "in between commutator" spacing...it "hesitates" as then it goes solid (if Analog Meter needle will drop suddenly to zero...and return fast, and Digital Meters will drop to one (1.0) as infinite reading for nano seconds...check one by one, mark start point to complete the 360 degrees round...We can not do this with Symmetric...they are always in short circuit...that is why they smoke as it shorts out...However, Asymmetric Motors could run with one or two faulty Coils (depending on total number of coils arrangement, but even the three poles could run with just Two Coils)...just like the Gas Engines could run without one or even two Cylinder firing( Eight Cylinder though, a four won't)...However, the Motor will stall at lower speeds and balance out at higher RPM's the same way...

Guess I expanded too much, sorry about that...



Regards Dana



Ufopolitics

Thankyou so much for all this. One thing I Noted when I took the fire spitting RS rotor appart is that Only two coils were intact. When I shut the motor off, it was running great, just spitting fire and small pieces of wire which felt like welding sparks on your skin.
Dana